Thursday, July 24, 2008

Pigs on a wing

Me wifey forwarded me the article below. Me thinks it is an interesting discussion of local Muslim's fascination of form over substance. Me remembers a Turkish patron at me old bistro, Broadwalk, say that Malaysian Muslims are very much in that mould. He pointed out how many Muslims can't even look at a pig (remember the ban of the movie Babe?) but are quite happy to eat crustaceans. The latter bit caught me slightly off guard. He contends that since crabs & prawns are bottom dwellers & therefore subsisted on waste (actually he said "shit"), these items are haram & should not be consumed.

Now, please note as a non-Muslim me is merely putting this topic (& article below) up fer discussion. It is not meant to offend anyone's religious sensibilities. It is also to highlight how the issue below has been turned into a political football & in particular the Malay papers who have been pouring kerosene on the fire.

Please peruse the article below & look forward to yer comments.

ps: me suppose the day oink stops being an issue in Malaysia is the day pigs fooking fly . . .

pps: Don't you think the dacing in the pix above is more representative of a certain political party's logo?

PIG FARMING - Is It Haram?

Dr Mohamed Rafick Khan bin Abdul Rahman

I have been following the story of the construction of a centralized
and modern pig farm in Kampung Tumbuk in Kuala Langat and how the
issue of religious sensitivity and racial cards has been played by the
Opposition (i.e. The BN people) in Selangor.

The issue also appears to have been made worst by the lopsided
reporting by the Malay newspaper which obviously is trying to incite
racial sentiments. Please allow me to share my views as a Muslim on
the matter. The Babi and the narrow minded politicians who called
themselves Muslims from an Islamic perspective. In Islam, the eating
of swine is forbidden. This is clearly demonstrated in many verses of
the Quran. Among others this includes: [1] 5:3, 6:145, 16:114-115; [2]
2:168-169, 3:93-94, 6:119, 10:59; [3] 5:90-91.

My research has failed to find any evidence that suggest that the
religion do not allow Muslims to be
standing next to or to look at or to smell a pig. Maybe some people in
authority can highlight further on this issue.

First of all, I am appalled at the narrow minded politicians who made
the issue of building a centralized and modern pig farming an issue.
It is beyond doubt thatthe real issue here is economy, environmental
pollution and improving quality of life in the surrounding community.
The opposition (BN) are making a mockery of this just because of
political mileage. I feel when something good is being done; it should
be promoted by all parties.

I have travelled to St Louis , USA where it is also known as pork
capital of the world. I have visited and stood 3 feet away from a pig
pen. There was no smell. It was so damn clean. It is even cleaner than
public toilets in Malaysia . How many of these politicians have
visited such a farm and how many are involved in goat farming in
Malaysia ? While goat is Halal in Malaysia , please enter many farms
there is in Malaysia and you will see how dirty it is. Islam only
prohibits the eating of pork. There is no prohibition of looking at it
or standing next to one. In fact I have yet to find anywhere in the
Quran that prevents Muslims from rearing it.

During my 15 months tour of duty with UN in Cambodia , many Malay
Champa who are strong Muslims rear pigs under their house for economic
reason even though they don't eat them. From an economic perspective
it is better to rear pigs than cows or goat. It is simply more
profitable. The pregnancy duration is about 112-115 days compared to
goat which is about 150 days or a cow 290 days.
At the end of each pregnancy the pig produces between 12- 15 piglets,
the goat about 1-2 kids and the cow 1 calf. From an environmental
perspective, it is definitely better to have a central farm where
small farmers join hands and run one big and clean farm. This way the
cleanliness of our water way will be maintained. Waste management will
become the epicentre of the operation. It is more economical to run
one big farm than many small farms that are
polluting.Overall it is a win win situation for everyone.

It is insulting the way some politicians look at the issue. I believe
from an Islamic perspective it is quite clear. It is the narrow minded
politicians that played up the issue that makes it into a Muslim and
non-Muslim issue and trying to create a bigger racial divide among
Malaysians. Sometimes I wonder, which has the lower image, the babi or
these politicians. For that aspect, I respect the position taken by
PAS on this matter. It has shown that it has handled the issues
properly. I ask all level minded Malaysian and to re look at the
'Babi' issue again. Study the real issue properly and make a proper
judgment. Overall it will benefit Malaysians from the economic,
environmental and quality of life perspective.


Anba said...

Balaji:- There was an interesting article regarding pig rearing in morocco...a muslim country...apparently this morroccan muslim sense the businessman sensed that foreigner in morroccan might need some oink oink meat...and he was rite...

Achilles said...

AD: Interesting article.

i don't mean to insult anyone here, but i really feel that "abstinence from pork" has been taken to a whole new level here which is beyond what is required. I have colleagues who won't eat from a well known chinese caterer, which is halal, and has a certificate for it...reason... chinese people like to eat pork... so chances of pork contamination from the plates, utensils or their hands is high.. since they have high exposure to pork.

i went to Kuantan not too long ago and was totally shocked. one would think that they would be even more strict with these rules since PAS rules the neighbouring states and it is a smaller town.

anyway i ate in this chinese restaurant which is in a Malay kampung like area...that had chinese letters on the sign board and even sponsored by Tiger. They served beer, the owner was chinese, the cooks were chinese, the waiters were all chinese... but they don't serve pork. i noticed on one table ... a mix group of Malays, Chinese and Indians were eating happily. The chinese and indians were drinking beer, and the muslims just drank coke or orange juice and they all ate merrily together. Wow... that really was very muhibah if you ask me. Doubt you can see the same scene in KL.

akuani said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
akuani said...

Will it then at some point become an issue if you're born in the year of the Oink? ... I suddenly feel bloody endangered la!! ... How you other Oinksters feel eh our 4 legged kin forever being picked on??

The same people who keep racing this issue about the poor old oink, usually have issue in calling out the word when it suits them ... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

achilles: was this chinese restaurant some where near Legends Hotel? Oh wait that out on the way to Cherating :)) - I make it a point to stop there every time I've done my vegetate on beach doing nothing drive ...

Achilles said...

akuani: Its about 5km away from Swiss Garden Kuantan... can't recall the name now.

I too love spending endless hours in the sea water doing absolutely nothing but floating...wifey calls me a beach bum.... ahhhh.... i think its time i go for another holiday.

muststopthis said...

funny how pigs can be a real issue, but wastage of funds for their own profit is not.
And no qualms about taking bribes too.....

Like I said before, I have many Muslim friends, who respect me enough to not impose their belief on me..

And to these open minded MALAYSIANS, please tell your 'brothers' about what respect is all about

DorisL said...

I understand that Pas-led Kelantan has the biggest Buddhist temple in the country. Further, I was informed that one of the mosque is just next to the wet market and for friday prayers, some of the muslims will sit at the pork seller's stall which is just outside the mosque ... so I think it's not so much the religion seems the influencing factor is more of the political party in power ....

akuani said...

achilles: It's the same one :) and I love the food and the MAJMUK atmosphere

Jon-C said...

God in all religious forms - Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism or other incarnations except "ajaran sesat" lah do not teach you to discriminate, incite hatred, incite racism but promote harmony, respect, tolerance and peace. It's the so called practitioners or "religious/holy" men or women who choose to skew and misinterpretate God's teaching and will that is screwing us up. They hide behind the religion/race rhetoric for their own self-gain.

anfield devotee said...

achilles: ah, that muhibbah feeling was very much evident during our own bloggers party at fatty crab. At least we are keeping the flag flying!

Note to all, notice how many stories from you guys relate how OPEN-MINDED & RELAXED people seem to be in PAS-led states.

j or ji said...

my comment on this one is same as the article before.i totally agree with the writer.good one.

War Pigs!

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of deaths construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

..yadayada,,if the states belong to BN,evertyhing will be OK jerr..
if its belong to PR, babi pun jadi issue.

i want OZZY for president!

Achilles said...

AD: Yes.. the blogger's meet was definitely done in the same spirit of what i saw in Kuantan...Ok... maybe just a tad bit louder. hehehehee

Doris: I agree with you. Its not the religion...its the people who intepret it, that's when we have all these problems.

Akuani: Is it the same one? Do you remember the name? From what i remember, its the only Chinese restaurant on that entire road which leads to Kuantan Town... the rest of the eateries in that area are all Ramly Burger stalls, Masakan Kampung gerai's and Tom Yam shops. but yeah.. food there rocks... although "pandi lovers" may miss not having their favourite pandi dish.

Feline said...

They say that sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees and other times you can't see the trees for the forest ... here we manage to see neither all the time.

anfield devotee said...

j or ji: Somehow me expected you to post the lyrics. Yer final point that everything is ok under BN is well put. The Malay community should start boycotting the Malay press fer all the alarmist & downright provocotive BULLSHIT it prints.

feline: well said.

premo said...

Achilles: Bro you took the words right outta my mouth. I've even been to Kelantan twice for out of town shoots and I have to say both times were sufficient enough to convince me that being a PAS led state is not always what its played to be in the newspapers.

Case in example: After said shoot, our entourage which included Chinese camera crew, Malay locals and clients and yours truly + another Indian colleague were all brought a local lunch hot spot that served Kelantanese delicacies such as Ox Brain stew and Fried Ox Lungs. Now of course, they had checked with any of the practising Hindus or Buddhists within our group if we had any objections .

Upon arriving there, I was surprised to see that the shop proprietors were Chinese, but the stall owners and cooks were local Malays! Muhibbah or what?! Now tell me how can this healthy co-existence happen in PAS led state if all the bullshit being fed to us about them being backward and extremist was true?

Again what is going on here just smacks of our local politicians trying to stoke the fires of racial politics by not so subtley attacking on issues such as pig raring, temple relocations, religious public holidays etc...

They cannot be serious can they? How ignorant and naive do they think we are? The worrying trend is that some people who actually believe in this bullshit are the religious elders and teachers, the so called enlightened ones in urban and rural areas that are supposed to spread knowledge and faith.

Which brings me to the conclusion that to have faith in God is one thing, but to follow his teachings blindly without question is something else. Religion is man made - therefore not flawless and subject to criticism.

On a lighter note - do check out for you latest news on Makin’ Bacon, Men With Hats - The Unsafety Dance, A Vulgar Display of Chowder and Monk + Heavy Metal = Fratello Metallo!!

Have a good laff for your metal diet :)

anfield devotee said...

Let's all move to Kelantan?

It'll be just like moving to Newcastle - indecipherable dialect, strange & exotic cuisine (blood sausage pudding) etc; only without the shitty brit weather!

Think about it, it'll be like emigrating within yer own borders! And fer those who hanker fer a bit of nitelife, Golok & the Thai border is that much closer !!!

Achilles said...

Premo: Dude.. i like the line "Religion is man made - therefore not flawless and subject to criticism". it sums it up beautifully.

But beware...some fanatics will have you believe that man got the idea and concept of religion through GOD via visions and man are just the tools or means for carrying out God's work.

AD: Yup.. lets move to Kelantan. as long as me is near a beach, me will be fine.

akuani said...

I forget the name. but it's open concept right? it's the only chinese place on the main road ... :))

Tinesh said...

It always boils down to the man-in-robes who distorts what a religious text says, in any religion. And to the man-in-parliament who tries to incite political hatred, in the name of Charlie Manson: FUCK OFF POLITICAL PIG!!!

ps: Dont think Manson said fuck off it's my own addition..And the babi in the Manson context were the cops.

Teng Hock said...

My brother, who just came out from National Service once told me that a few Malays in the camp actually said this in front of a few Chinese girls, "Amoi amoi, muka cantik, tapi makan babi"

The so called trainer did not take any action despite such racist remarks. Some of my brother's friends wanted to reply them, "Muka cantik sebab makan babi ma" but did not do it as they know about the consequences if they do it.

Fooking ridiculous if you ask me, for not punishing these buggers

ISA said...

ahh this khinzir (politically correct mah) issue again...please lah...these fookers got no more issues to raise ah?? The prohibition in Islam in relation to pork is the CONSUMPTION!! enuff said...

I for one don't give a rats ass if my non-muslim friend wants to eat pork beside me...becoz sitting beside someone who eats pork can never constitute CONSUMPTION on my part.

By the way, I had one of me most wonderful meals ever in a restaurant in Barcelona with the wifey in an old old establishment, at least 200+ years old. Its specialities : wood roast chicken and cured Iberian Ham...with legs and legs and more legs of cured ham hanging from the smell, lovely atmosphere..tarak hal punya lah with me...

by the way, whenever me and my mates sit down for some makan...its always muhibbah..except aku rasa macam minority..always the only melayu..sigh...

Kerp (Ph.D) said...

i'm with doris here, its not about religion but mere politics. when the previous gomen led by stupid taib, abu hassan and eventually toyo, pig farming was never an issue. what the present gomen is doing currently is to centralise pig-rearing and tidy it up. i believe itsa good move for a cleaner and healthier environment.

on personal level, i dont have any qualm looking at pigs. no offence guys, but as a muslim i admit i wont feel comfortable dining in restaurants selling pork-based dishes.

anfield devotee said...

Isa: Didn't bungkus fer us ah? How fooking selfish . . . you could have smuggled in a leg or two f that wonderful ham . . .

kerp: Sure, understand if yer uneasy bout dining in a pandi-serving establishment. No issues there la. Just that this bastard Khir & the fooking Malay papers must make this into a race issue . . . AGAIN!

Tinesh: Charlie boy isn't quite the role model / spokesperson we were looking fer . . . he he

teng hock: Fookers were just jealous la tak dapat amoi . . . pls la . . . if kankang see whether they say no or not!

akuani said...

I am born in the year Oink, I love my servings of oink (AD's infamous paandi curry too *grin*) and I think they be really cute if we kept them like the mat sallehs did nice and neat pets for the eventual slaughter (a bit sadistic but then again YUM YUM it's cured Piglet *kih kih kih*)

However being born in Malaysia and raised to appreciate the cultural spectrum we have, I have to say this and if anyone calls me a racist pig for what I say next, please try to disprove me ya!

Every other fooking race in Malaysia is acutely aware that pork and muslims don't jive on the eating table. We are also aware that not only has the food got to be pork free but the utensils the food is cooked in has to be pork free.

Every other fooking race is also aware of the food taboos of everyone else ... no beef for staunch buddhists and hindhus for example.

But there seems to be one group of people usually the arrogant no religious knowledge to begin with clowns who will give you gems like this "ala tolak je daging ke tepi, ambik kuah. bukan makan pun"

Like errr hello???? (and because every other fooking race in Malaysia is so fooking accommodating to such display of foolishness, we smile grit our teeth and not throw a row) I find myself usually standing out like a sore thumb with most innocent face asking back "kalau lauk ni lauk babi (oh shit I sad the B word), boleh kau tolak daging ke tepi ambik lauk????

If looks could fooking kill, I'd be dead a gezillion times by now.

There's fish, seafood, chicken, lamb/mutton on the menu - will leaving moo moo out for one fooking meal with other races kill them moo moo mush brained dingbats???

*SIGH* .... Long live pigs :)) am off to grunt and snort elsewhere for now!

Life's Like That said...

Once again, we see our politicians making a mountain out of a molehill all for their own benefits. I am quite sure many of our muslim frens do not think the same way. Tuan Kerp in Fatty Crab was a classic example. Being sandwiched by 2 alcohol guzzlers(AD n Meself) did not affect him at all! I think he had just as much fun as we did, albeit in a more soberly way!

Mohan said...

AD Dude: Watched a fascinating documentary on BBC last week on various(sometimes dubious) interpretations of the Qur'an and how terrorist and various religious leaders used it to justify their actions. I don't think you can seperate religion, race, politics, way of life or even for the matter of fact differential vernicular languages.
What on the earth does unity through diversity mean anyway??

Religion will always be used to take advantage of the masses by someone or rather to dominate and rule!!!

Here's to the Michael Stipe and his idea of the first generation brought up without religion.. and of course to the demise of your famed pandi kari i keep hearing about!!

p/s: Nice of LLT and you not to spew on tuan Kerp unlike madam Senorita who did it to her poor shoes!
p/s2: Disclaimer: Am not responsible for this in any manner as 6 double scothces make you write things you regret later!

Mohan said...

p/s3: we've seen that with the Hindu fucks in India too and the Christian dudes too... (think the Crusades and Inqusitions!)
p/s4: trying be clever talking about something i don't know much...maaf!

Kerp (Ph.D) said...

hey hold on, let me just get this straight- are you guys saying paandi means babi in tamil? if thats the case, does the sri paandi restaurant serves babi? just wondering thats all. me all-time fav banana leaf restaurant has always been Lotus anyway.

mohan- them bastards were pretty much sober still when i decided to split.

senorita.. said...

oooi ooi... my shoes... it just got in the way. =(

M,fucking concentrate on ur drink and not read blogs while drinking and then type 'mmmm..mmm...' in LLT's blog n also bring back dirty memories (my vomit and shoes)... lol =P

as for the discussed matter, i seriously did not know that the Muslims are only not allowed to consume pork but looking and be near them is ok. erm,what abt dogs? i think i heard before some said that Muslims are also not allowed to touch dogs or smtg like that? but i know of some people who refrain from walking pass a chinese eatery for fear of inhaling the smoke coming from the restaurant. =/

akuani said...

Kerp: Sri Paandi and Pandi/Paandi the oink are 2 very different things ya - fret not ok ...

you aren't eating a Sri Oinks.

Paandi is a name ... check this out - a God's name ...

and also Pandi melam is a classic performance (melam) of different musical instruments that are unique to Kerala state of south India.

So fret not that the word sounds the same - it's not related to oinkster in anyway :))

Plus it's the banana leaf joints NEVER serve pork ... at least in my 37 yrs I've never had pork served to me in a indian restaurant. So it's halal enough for everyone to eat - and me thinks the meats are halal slaughtered (isn't the majority what we get here halal unless I chased the chook/goat/cow myself and chopped off it's head??)

Senorita: I know what you mean about not wanting the air to touch them ... I had a tough time convincing some Malay girls that the vege indian food has absolutely nothing but vege vege vege - so unless vege had to be cut in a halal way - there was nothing to stop them from eating this ...

But as an aside, you know how chinese vege food you get your vegan oink and char siew??? Well ehhehehe I know some muslim friends who gorge themselves regularly on this pseudo meats while out eating chinese vegan cuisine - I keep asking are you sure you want to do that - and they saw the love it ...

THOUGHT: isn't eating something masked to be forbidden food, just as bad as eating the real deal??? I mean errr am I missing something here?

But since I love food - hey more the merrier join in and YUM!

Jon-C said...

Akuani, in terms of vegetarian food, i'll rather have indian vegetarian banana leave then your typical chinese MSG infused flour made "char siew" , "chicken" , "mutton" , "pork" and "beef."

Ever notice you're unusually thirsty or ya tongue is numb after the chinese vege meal?

akuani said...

Jon-C: I agree ... I get high on chinese tea haahahah drowning my thirst

anfield devotee said...

akuani: No, me thinks eating Tofu Pork is ok as it is NOT filthy as defined in their holy book.
And tq fer heaping more praise on me humble pandi curry. Shit, people will be thinking its oink nirvana or something which it isn't (just ask LLT!).
Imagine, if oink was banned in this country, yer brother would actually be . . . gasp . . . slim! Ha ha!

senorita: Muslims are actually allowed to touch dogs. Though they must wash their hands after. It is the wet tip of the dog's nose which is considered filthy. Me Muslim colleague Madam O has said again another issue which many Muslims in the country make an unnecessary issue out of.

kerp: Don't worry, our next outing is not at Sri Pandi's but at Mr Muru's place called Sri Bala's (no, me don't have share in it). BTW, the address of the place is no8, jln ss6/8, kelana jaya (behind giant). Feel free to check it out with yer folks/gal.

Mohon: Yup, point taken. Yer not too hot on religion. Me understands where yer coming from. But just to clarify matters with you, Hindusim does NOT propagate violence. It also the one religion that does NOT go out looking fer conversions. You either are or not. Hindisum is also a non-exclusive religion in that the scriptures foretold the coming of a bearded fellow in Jerusalem & another whose name would unfortunately be used TWICE before the moniker Taib.
You mention the crusades & the inquisition, nothing to do with Hidus dude. But note that the BNP (India) hasn't actually been good PR fer the religion but dude, to dismiss the whole concept of religion as misguided is a tad drastic.
LLT tells me you are quite the genius philosopher & am sure you will hantam me kau kau in a debate. But tell me this, didn't you feel something more powerful in the air @ Thaipusam when you see a small child carrying a massive kavadii on his frail shoulders going up the steps & not a drop of blood is spilled from the many skewers?

ps: what d'ya mean by "the demise of your famed pandi kari"? Why la dude? Was just gonna offer to make you a pot when you drop by fer holiday.

Achilles said...

Mohan: To add to what you said, i was reading this debate in Time magazine some time back between a famous atheist writer and a minister of a church.

The atheist borught up some interesting stats. Number of people killed in the name of religion - thousands maybe even millions (from the time of the crusades to even our modern day Osama)

Number of people killed because of atheism - nil.

now don't get me wrong, me is not an atheist in any sense, but just goes to show how people have used religion for their own greedy ends.

Akuani: You reminded me of a similar instance in my office. me and some other non muslim staff were oredering food from this chinese restaurant that delivers... and yes they do serve pandi. Whenever we ordered pandi, we would make it a point to sit in the pantry and not in our cubicles like we usually do when we order food.. But some of our muslim staff made a complaint to our head saying we should not even be eating it in the pantry. So our head adviced all of us to be more mindful of other people's religion.

2 days after our head told us to be more sensitive, these fookers ordered McDonalds and of course, the all famous Big Mac...and ate in the office... so of course we told them they were being insensitive to us hindu's by eating beef in the office. believe it or not, they were all totally and honestly blur and were like "huh? tak paham-lah... apa salahnya makan big mac??"

Sigh... how others have to bend over backwards to accomadate you and fanaticism, and you don't even understand it when others tell you their side of the story which is similar to yours.

Kerp (Ph.D) said...


Muslims are ONLY not allowed to consume/touch/have sex with pigs. So basically physical contacts of any form is a no-no.

As for dogs, we can touch them, as long both our hand and the dogs are dry. But we are not allowed to consume or have sex with dogs…muhahhahhahaaaaaaaaa


Hey, thanks for the explanationgiven. Kinda freaked out a bit. when first read it, I tried to recall hard if I ever dined @sri paandi joint.


I should be able to find the restaurant. But not too sure if I could join you guys. On second thought, Ok maybe I could for a while. A plate or 2 of white rice, fried chicken, tons of papedom and curry rumbe-rumbe and I’m good to go.

Eh, this aint no vegan joint is it bala? Don’t get me wrong, I just hate veggies, that’s all.

akuani said...

Kerp: eheh since I work in Tropicana - let's have a mid-week Sri Bala lunch :)) and AD can come minus his now near infamy paandi curry *kih kih kih*

Who else can do this?? I promise to hide all my footie team stuff from public eye ... since this is Kopiteville and nons like me are scarce eheh *looks around nervously*

anfield devotee said...

akuani: sorry la, weekdays are out fer me.

kerp: er why can't you join us? We haven't even decided on a date? Sick of us already ah?

No, it ain't a veggie place. Full on banana leaf restaurant - mutton, chicken, etc.

Kerp (Ph.D) said...

eh i thought you guys have set the date to be on that Merdeka weekend. just fyi, the beginning of fasting month most probably falls on that monday. so you know lah, needs to spiritually prepare myself and stuff like that. but you guys please carry on la. like i said, i can still join, makan, lepak and then bugger off la after a pint or 2 of guinness...malta.


Mohan said...

Ad Dude: To answer your question about kavadi kid...well i'm sure there's some physiological / phychological reason why!. There's no reason for us to not seek solutions in a rational/understandable manner. Well, on one hand you justify the crap happening with the politcal situation back home in a very rational way, at the same time in an opposite direction with supersonic kavadi kid!! isn't that a contradiction of sorts? Of course i used to feel something more powerful in the air in Thaipusam at Penang... the dudes kepaking to AR. Rehman!!
Anyway enough of my crap! Do enjoy some of your articles. Kudos dude.
p/s: concentrating really hard on my whiskey now and am literary floating...hmm... gonna rest on me bed of nails next!...hahaha

DorisL said...

Achilles/Akuani : I think you are referring to the same shop that I went to beginning of the year. I was in Kuantan just this monday but the shop was not opened :(. It's a corner shop along Jalan Beserah on the left side of the road heading towards town centre. I remember the last time I was there, there was a lion dance troupe practice with all the clinks clanks just upstairs the shop next to it. Yummy nasi lemak there :)

anfield devotee said...

mohan: yes, you seem to have all the answers. If it cannot be explained rationally, then its hogwash.

Politically, its simply me opinion & me choose to see it in simple black & white terms.

As fer me spiritual quest & how me sees the world thru it, suffice to say it is a source of great comfort to me.

Granted man & religion has been the root cause of much suffering & misery. But me shan't be dismissing it as redundant.

However, me fails to see your point. How is it a contradiction? One has got to do with BN fooks who are just mere mortals (though they behave like gods), the other has to do with a spiritual journey.
You mean if a person has some form of spiritual belief, s/he is NOT allowed to view other things in a rational/logical manner? What bollocks?

As fer yer taunts regarding super kavadi kid, did it ever occur to you that he may have found the answers you are looking fer with yer equations?

And why is it whenever someone decides to pooh pooh the feats of kavadi bearers, it always some psycologocal/physiological reason? No one heas yet to show something concrete or point out how it can specifically be done to thousands every year in a crowded, chaotic environment.

ps: Wait till some Sabahan chick puts a jampi on you & good luck with trying to rationalise yer way out of that!

akuani said...

turbulent trinity is kicking in *scrambles out of firing range*

Mohan said...

Ad Dude: Chill! Of course i don't have the answers to everything (even in my own field)...or you'd be worshipping me..hmmm and i'd liked to be called Lord M. the Invinsible Ruler of the Universe.

I don't really mind ppl. having faiths and believes. I respect them...important point is i respect people what ever they choose their faith to be. I just don't believe in it.

Yes..we do get inspiration from different forms of super kavadi kid, experiences and different teachings of various religions. But we'vle also seen the outrageous traditional/local interpretations of South African's and their struggle with AIDS!, Creationism from the US dudes that cloud simplicity in understanding or even in a more local scenario a totally misguided interpretation of the Qur'an for confusion.(remember all of the scriptures are interpretations anyway!). What i'm trying to say is rationality and the need to understand nature and life is more important to me.
Sure i will not get there..of course i will not get there!... but it's the only way i know how to at least contribute something toward where ever we're heading.

Your words:
"You mean if a person has some form of spiritual belief, s/he is NOT allowed to view other things in a rational/logical manner? What bollocks?" :: why not take a look at spritual belief the opposite way, in a rational/logical manner?? and see what turns up!

More importantly, i'm learning everytime. Hope i haven't offended you personally. Have no problems with bumming around with ideas. BTW, got kavadi kid's number... might help me write this crap thesis and of course...sabahan babes...they can jampi me anytime.

You take care, M

anfield devotee said...

Mohan: No offence taken & glad you didn't take me comments the wrong way!

Yes, you are quite right we sould attempt to aplly logic to religion. Am pretty sure there are a few good lessons to be learnt there.

Macha, pls don't even joke about them Sabahan chikus jampi. Stories abound about the nastiness dude! Not funny in the least bit (especially when they were only "babes" thru beer goggles, esok pagi camillia parker bowles!). Will fill you in on some horror stories when you are back fer hols!

Hey, you haven't explained why ye said "demise of yer pandi curry" in one of yer comments. Why la?

Look forward to reading yer thought-provoking comments on various issues in the future. The pleasure's all mine dude.

ps: Kindly check out Entombed's Left Hand Path download. Its a cult classic, well worth yer time.
Also hope you took the time to download Terrorizer's World Downfall. They were one of the late Kopite John Peel's favourite bands.

Anba said...

This is something that i found on wikipedia regarding the last words og Sri Raghevendra swamigal... it is really worth thinking about...
Raghavendra Swami gave a soul-stirring speech [1] to hundreds of devotees who had gathered to watch the event. Some quotes from that speech are as follows -
"Without right living, right thinking will never come. Right living is performing one's ordained duties according to one's station in life without hankering after the fruits of the actions and on the other hand offering all one's activities to the Lord. This is real sadachara (right living). This is real karma yoga."
"Social work done for the good of worthy people should also be considered as the Lord's worship. In short, our life itself is a worship. Every action is a puja. This life is precious. Every second of our life is precious. Not even a second that has gone will come back. Listening to the right shastras and always remembering Him is the highest duty."

"Always keep away from people who merely perform miracles without following the shastras and yet call themselves God or guru. I have performed miracles, and so have great persons like Srimadacharya. These are based on yoga siddhi and the shastras. There is no fraud or trickery at all. These miracles were performed only to show the greatness of God and the wonderful powers that one can attain with His grace. Right knowledge (jnana) is greater than any miracle. Without this no real miracle can take place. Any miracle performed without this right knowledge is only sorcery. No good will come to those who perform such miracles and also those who believe in them."

"Have devotion to the Lord. This devotion should never be blind faith. Accepting the Lord's supremacy wholeheartedly is true devotion. Blind faith is not devotion. It is only stupidity. We should have devotion, not only for the Lord, but also for all other deities and preceptors in keeping with their status."

Anba said...

Another intersting article i found on wikipedia...

Muhammad is mentioned by name in the Hindu scriptures in several aspects. Muhammad appears with the names Amad and Mahāmad.[179] Thus, Muhammad is mentioned, as Mahāmad (the ultimate Amad), in III.3.3.5-27 of the Bhavishya Purana text. The passage is aware of Muhammad's Arabian origin, and portrays him as an epithet of Brahma. It states that Muhammad will redevelop religion for the Arya Dharma people, and will destroy the worship of idols. It then refers to the other religions as Malechhas (non-Aryan) who have brought a powerful enemy Tripurāsura whom Mahamad has brought a great blessing to kill. It then explains the Malechhas religion as dharmadūṣaka ("polluter of righteousness"), a preceptor of paiśācadharma ("ghoulish religion"), that spoils the land of the Arabs. [180] [181][182]

Mohan said...

AD Dude: demise of your pandi curry!::.. just me trying to be funny and stupid all at once...of course your pandi curry is here to stay and am looking forward to getting a kick out of it too!!(Provided the politicians don't make a whole senseless issue out of nothing causing the mass exodus of pandis in their V6's to neighbouring countries!).... then again think it was a pandi who wrote on the wall...
p/s: wondering who the pandis are now!!

anfield devotee said...

Anba: TQ fer that. Me thinks me ha read the first posting before. BUt always good to read again. TQ bro.

Mohan: Very well said. 'Me has always believed that Malaysia is best reflected in Orwell's novels. Not just in Animal Farm but also in 1984. The latter book portrays Mahathirsm in near perfect detail. Big brother is watching you indeed!

ps: Let me know when you will be back & will endeavour to not just do pandi curry fer you but WILD BOAR curry!

akuani said...

AD!!!!! Wild Boar??? and I get totally missed on this deal? hharruupphhh!

anfield devotee said...

ahhh, akuani, therein lies the privilege of being a Kopite. Am sure you can find some friendly scummer to cook you some wild boar . . . hee hee

akuani said...

actually all I need AD is to find anyone who can lay their hands on Wild Boar for me and then YUM YUM ... I got the best cooks with me - mom and grandma, they beat anyone elses "kaathu paandi muriyal"

Well this scummer as you call me hopes you're on the move and feeling better now :)))))

anfield devotee said...

akuani: Thanx fer the well wishers.

Yes, me knows yer mum & grandma expert cooks but me'll ask them to refrain from cooking fer you coz yer a scummer! Ha ha ha!

You can get wild boar from Old Klang Road market.

Anba said...

Akuani:...You can always drop by lawan kuda in get your kathu pani supply...hehehe...b4 the oil price went up...a plate of wild boar curry cost rm its rm 4.00...
practically i'm having it like from 4-6 times in a week fer dinner...sampai the shop owner pun dah tahu..either San Chiok Kari or Kung Poh San chiok...hehehe...
i wonder how life will be without my Wild Boar...

akuani said...

Anba: *wwaaiillllll* you know it's been like I think 15 years since I last had kathu pandi *sob sob* and AD refuses to share some ... can I be your friend and nick some off you sometime???

Gopeng eh??? wait wait ... once you get off the toll is this lawan kuda to the right to the left where where???? Don't want to end up in Gua what that place again?? or sipping tea with the ghost of Kellie ... I want to be slobbering down my Wild Boar *kih kih kih*

AD: OKR market aaa? Aiya ... from Seremban I have to drive here meh? No more plantation people also that I know ... Cheh!

Last I saw a kathu pandi was in Kenyir Lake in 1996 with my bro, sis and then much loved significant other (not anymore!) ... we had a bit of run thanks to the buggers heehehehehhe

Anba said...

Akuani:.. just after the toll gopeng exit ..there's a traffic light...turn right heading towards gopeng town...after that turn left just b4 the first traffic light that you see...go a bit further down the'll see the lawan kuda exit on your left...then there are like 8-9 restaurants in this stretch of road...and you can get your kathu any of the restaurant...
have fun...

anfield devotee said...

Anba, you realise you are being nice to a scummer here rite?

Akuani, get one of yer friends who stay aroud OUG, Kuchai Lama or thereabouts to buy fer you la.

If not . . . too bad . . . hee hee!

akuani said...

AD: I'm a fellow kathu pandi fan .. that out weighs your footie fanatics ..

Anba: you're a sweetheart ... I think I know how to get there ... it's the left before the very green St. Jude church on the left ya? before the Shell station as well ... eheh cool cool... next time heading north will make a detour :))

Harumphhh to AD and big smile at Anba...

Anba said...

Akauni: Yup...thats the road...My personal Fav is KA KA Fatt..they give you a very good portion of kathu pandi for rm 10 bucks...serving size for 2-3 person...
Restoran 668 opposite of Ka Ka fatt is quite famous fer their exotic dishes to...Phython.Crocodile Feet..Ayam Hutan..river Terrapin..
you can try if you're interested...

Balaji:- Takpa bro when it comes to food i guess Scum or No Scum...bolehlah bg Chance...lagipun season pun blm start lagi... skrg Peace time...Adios

akuani said...

Anba: 'akauni'??? appe lah my name got changed?? *kih kih kih*

Alamak why la 668 sounds like something PETA would be unhappy about ... (wait I better not mention my other strange food eating experiences here)

Will do on checking out Ka Ka Fatt, but 668 hmmm let me mull over this a bit - I mean I do try anything at least once (eheheh might be my chinese blood % and the anything back facing sun can eat theory), but some of the animals I somehow can't bring myself to chow down on ...

Can I ask Anba, the story goes there's a tunnel from Kellie's castle to the Hindu temple (big one slightly further off) - is this true? The so called entry was sealed off otherwise, sure adventurer ani would have taken the walk. I found Kellie's Castle simply awesome photography material even hugged the bear tree! :))

Anba said...

Sorry eh..slip of the Keyboard...
Yup...the story is ture...actually they accidently discovered the tunnel when they were widening the road 45 yeras ago...came out in the papers..

One of the end of the tunnel is just below the inner sanctum of the Mariamman Temple...back in 92 the temple mentioned it and showed the opening covered by the massive concrete slab... am not sure if you can crawl thru the tunnel...
Gua Tempurung is better for tunnel crawling i guess...

akuani said...

Gua Tempurung is also on the cards one of these days

I must stop at the temple next time heading that way :) and you're probably right, with my girth, there's no way I'd crawl through some narrow tunnel - then I'd end up in the news too for all the wrong reasons *LMFAO*

Done some picture taking at the big temple in Batu Gajah town ... now I forget which temple that is *cheh! bad memory cells*

Anba said...

Akuani:- Thats the Murugan / Subramaniyar temple in Bt the way...

akuani said...

Anba: you must be from Gopeng/Bt. Gajah side *kih kih kih* and that is indeed the temple - blue on the outside very peaceful :))

Mom and me sat in there for a bit some months back - me first with my stops at the various 'stations' and then shutterbug happy and mom left in her thoughts ...

Have you seen the Subramaniam temple in Seremban? Very nice but haven't yet snapped away ..

akuani said...

Anba: drove through Gopeng yesterday, saw the sign board to Lawan Kuda ... eheheh next trip, sure stop for wild boar! You're a chum! Thanks ...